• Style codes in messages

    From Digital Man@VERT to All on Thu Oct 15 17:14:00 2020
    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes" in message body text?

    I got the idea from reading about GoldEd+'s ability to (optionally) highlight message text that has been marked-up (e.g. this would *bold*, /italic/, etc.). GoldEd+ doesn't actually supports bold, italic, etc., so it just uses different foreground colors to indicate those text styles. But its possible some terminals do support those text attributes and other methods of message rendering (e.g. via HTML/CSS) could definitely support those text attributes.

    There are many styles of text mark-up, so I'm not really proposing a specific one (though, compatiblity with GoldEd+'s "style codes") would seem to make sense), but just a basic set, like bold, italic, underline, and inverse. No fonts or sizes or any meaning/context-implications.

    Such a feature could be toggleable per sub-board, so if it were a problem for some systems/networks/areas, it'd be easy to turn off. Anyway, something to think about/discuss...

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #89:
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  • From The Millionaire@VERT to Digital Man on Thu Oct 15 17:23:31 2020
    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes" in message body text?

    I got the idea from reading about GoldEd+'s ability to (optionally) highlight message text that has been marked-up (e.g. this would *bold*, /italic/, etc.). GoldEd+ doesn't actually supports bold, italic, etc., so it just uses different foreground colors to indicate those text styles. But its possible some terminals do support those text attributes and other methods of message rendering (e.g. via HTML/CSS) could definitely support those text attributes.

    There are many styles of text mark-up, so I'm not really proposing a specific one (though, compatiblity with GoldEd+'s "style codes") would seem to make sense), but just a basic set, like bold, italic, underline, and inverse. No fonts or sizes or any meaning/context-implications.

    Such a feature could be toggleable per sub-board, so if it were a problem for some systems/networks/areas, it'd be easy to turn off. Anyway, something to think about/discuss...

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #89:
    XSDK = Synchronet External Program Software Development Kit for C/C++
    Norco, CA WX: 92.5øF, 18.0% humidity, 6 mph NE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs


    Two thumbs up from me. Got my vote. Cool colours in message bodies. Awesomage.

    $ The Millionaire $

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  • From Al@VERT to Digital Man on Thu Oct 15 17:21:02 2020
    Hello Digital Man,


    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes" in message body text?

    Not a bad idea.

    I got the idea from reading about GoldEd+'s ability to (optionally) highlight message text that has been marked-up (e.g. this would
    *bold*, /italic/, etc.). GoldEd+ doesn't actually supports bold,
    italic, etc., so it just uses different foreground colors to indicate those text styles. But its possible some terminals do support those
    text attributes and other methods of message rendering (e.g. via
    HTML/CSS) could definitely support those text attributes.

    I am replying to your message with golded and in the quote above I see your *bold* and /italic/ above is white and standard text is lgrey, so it does stand out from other text.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Thu Oct 15 21:52:38 2020
    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Digital Man to All on Thu Oct 15 2020 05:14 pm

    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes" in message body text?

    I got the idea from reading about GoldEd+'s ability to (optionally) highlight message text that has been marked-up (e.g. this would *bold*, /italic/, etc.). GoldEd+ doesn't actually supports bold, italic, etc., so it just uses different foreground colors to indicate those text styles.

    Interesting idea. Seems to me new changes like this can lead to text potentially looking a bit ugly in clients & readers that don't support those new things, so that's probably something to consider too. I imagine SyncTerm would be updated to support it, but other terminal programs & offline message readers, etc. might not know how to deal with it.

    Nightfox

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Fri Oct 16 00:47:19 2020
    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Thu Oct 15 2020 09:52 pm

    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Digital Man to All on Thu Oct 15 2020 05:14 pm

    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes" in message body text?

    I got the idea from reading about GoldEd+'s ability to (optionally) highlight message text that has been marked-up (e.g. this would *bold*, /italic/, etc.). GoldEd+ doesn't actually supports bold, italic, etc., so it just uses different foreground colors to indicate those text styles.

    Interesting idea. Seems to me new changes like this can lead to text potentially looking a bit ugly in clients & readers that don't support those new things, so that's probably something to consider too. I imagine SyncTerm would be updated to support it, but other terminal programs & offline message readers, etc. might not know how to deal with it.

    I think the idea is that the text would still look /fine/ (and very readable) when viewed in a non-supporting viewer. I wasn't thinking SyncTERM would change necessarily, unless Deuce had plans for text styles. Could be cool though even without any special terminal support.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #29:
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  • From Tony Langdon@VERT to Digital Man on Fri Oct 16 19:48:00 2020
    On 10-15-20 17:14, Digital Man wrote to All <=-

    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes" in message body text?

    Hmm, if there's an option to strip them in QWK packets, then I'm fine with it. I don't want to have to hit "V" for every message and then be quoting ANSI escape sequences every message, or having a pile of raw control codes in messages. :)

    So yeah it depends how it's implemented, and provided it doesn't create issues for any software outside of the BBS, why not? Might need another QWK option to strip formatting codes (like there is to strip CTRL-A codes).

    I got the idea from reading about GoldEd+'s ability to (optionally) highlight message text that has been marked-up (e.g. this would *bold*, /italic/, etc.). GoldEd+ doesn't actually supports bold, italic, etc.,
    so it just uses different foreground colors to indicate those text
    styles. But its possible some terminals do support those text
    attributes and other methods of message rendering (e.g. via HTML/CSS) could definitely support those text attributes.

    Yeah worth considering, as long as it doesn't break anything. I bigger issue might be FTN - you'd have to strip the codes for non Synchronet systems, then Synchronet systems further downstream would miss out on the formatting. Probably could make it work on DOVE without too many issues, since we're mostly Synchronet there.


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  • From Daryl Stout@VERT/TBOLT to Digital Man on Fri Oct 16 01:37:00 2020
    Rob,

    I'm still having problems with the glitch in SyncTerm. The
    version is still 1.1 from ftp://vert.synchro.net -- and I've
    even downloaded versions from sourceforge and elsewhere.

    You had noted a "bug" with the display, when it should be
    80x24, the program only offers 80x25 or custom. I've even
    tried the font size at 8x14 or 8x16, and it still doesn't
    show the ANSI right.

    If there is a "fixed version", I haven't found it. I prefer
    using SyncTerm, but I can't get around this glitch with the
    telnet logon, and I think using another mode (i.e. SSH), would
    still have the same ANSI issues.

    Daryl

    ... Z-Modem: A modem that has been given a tranquilizer.
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Digital Man on Fri Oct 16 07:17:00 2020
    Digital Man wrote to All <=-

    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes" in message body text?

    I'd like to see that. I'm thinking about some web markup schemes
    that people use to emphasize plain text, like *bold* text would look
    like ASCII to everyone else, but Synchronet could render as bold.

    Maybe /italic/ ?

    You'd need a scheme to to escape literal characters, like in a URL,
    though...

    Time for a WYSIWYG version of Slyedit? :)



    ... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Fri Oct 16 08:08:35 2020
    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Fri Oct 16 2020 12:47 am

    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes"
    in message body text?

    I got the idea from reading about GoldEd+'s ability to
    (optionally) highlight message text that has been marked-up (e.g.
    this would *bold*, /italic/, etc.). GoldEd+ doesn't actually
    supports bold, italic, etc., so it just uses different foreground
    colors to indicate those text styles.

    Interesting idea. Seems to me new changes like this can lead to text
    potentially looking a bit ugly in clients & readers that don't support
    those new things, so that's probably something to consider too. I
    imagine SyncTerm would be updated to support it, but other terminal
    programs & offline message readers, etc. might not know how to deal
    with it.

    I think the idea is that the text would still look /fine/ (and very readable) when viewed in a non-supporting viewer. I wasn't thinking SyncTERM would change necessarily, unless Deuce had plans for text styles. Could be cool though even without any special terminal support.

    Were you thinking of using special characters around text (like the slashes you used around "fine") to mean certain kinds of markup? That would look okay even in terminals that don't support the special styling. It would be cool to see.

    Nightfox

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Tony Langdon on Fri Oct 16 09:47:18 2020
    Re: Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Tony Langdon to Digital Man on Fri Oct 16 2020 07:48 pm

    On 10-15-20 17:14, Digital Man wrote to All <=-

    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes" in message body text?

    Hmm, if there's an option to strip them in QWK packets, then I'm fine with it. I don't want to have to hit "V" for every message and then be quoting ANSI escape sequences every message, or having a pile of raw control codes in messages. :)

    There wouldn't be any ANSI or control codes in the messages. The markup syntax would use just *plain* US-ASCII characters, like that.

    So yeah it depends how it's implemented, and provided it doesn't create issues for any software outside of the BBS, why not? Might need another QWK option to strip formatting codes (like there is to strip CTRL-A codes).

    I don't think there'd be any reason to do anything special for QWK (no new options needed). The only options needed would be for *viewing* messages and whether or not to recognize teh style codes and how to treat them.

    I got the idea from reading about GoldEd+'s ability to (optionally) highlight message text that has been marked-up (e.g. this would *bold*, /italic/, etc.). GoldEd+ doesn't actually supports bold, italic, etc., so it just uses different foreground colors to indicate those text styles. But its possible some terminals do support those text attributes and other methods of message rendering (e.g. via HTML/CSS) could definitely support those text attributes.

    Yeah worth considering, as long as it doesn't break anything. I bigger issue might be FTN - you'd have to strip the codes for non Synchronet systems, then Synchronet systems further downstream would miss out on the formatting. Probably could make it work on DOVE without too many issues, since we're mostly Synchronet there.

    It appears GoldEd+ has supported these codes for years and people use them without any special treatment (e.g. stripping) for networks. I use them (well *bold*) just out of habit.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #34:
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Daryl Stout on Fri Oct 16 09:53:32 2020
    Re: SyncTerm Glitch
    By: Daryl Stout to Digital Man on Fri Oct 16 2020 01:37 am

    Rob,

    I'm still having problems with the glitch in SyncTerm. The
    version is still 1.1 from ftp://vert.synchro.net -- and I've
    even downloaded versions from sourceforge and elsewhere.

    You had noted a "bug" with the display, when it should be
    80x24, the program only offers 80x25 or custom.

    SyncTERM has a tone of Screen Mode options:

    ╔════════════════╗
    ║ Screen Mode ║
    ╠════════════════╣
    ║ │Current ║
    ║ │80x25 ║
    ║ │80x28 ║
    ║ │80x30 ║
    ║ │80x43 ║
    ║ │80x50 ║
    ║ │80x60 ║
    ║ │132x37 (16:9) ║
    ║ │132x52 (5:4) ║
    ║ │132x25 ║
    ║ │132x28 ║
    ║ │132x30 ║
    ║ │132x34 ║
    ║ │132x43 ║
    ║ │132x50 ║
    ║ │132x60 ║
    ║ │C64 ║
    ╚════════════════╝

    I've even
    tried the font size at 8x14 or 8x16, and it still doesn't
    show the ANSI right.

    Which ANSI?

    If there is a "fixed version", I haven't found it. I prefer
    using SyncTerm, but I can't get around this glitch with the
    telnet logon, and I think using another mode (i.e. SSH), would
    still have the same ANSI issues.

    What ANSI issues? Perhaps if you described the problem I could either get it fixed or help you to understand how to use the program better so the problem didn't occur. But right now, I really have no clue what problem you're trying to describe.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #3:
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Oct 16 11:29:15 2020
    Re: Re: Style codes in messages
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Digital Man on Fri Oct 16 2020 07:17 am

    Digital Man wrote to All <=-

    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes" in message body text?

    I'd like to see that. I'm thinking about some web markup schemes
    that people use to emphasize plain text, like *bold* text would look
    like ASCII to everyone else, but Synchronet could render as bold.

    Maybe /italic/ ?

    Right. Those are included in the ones that GoldEd+ supports. Also _underlined_ and #inverse#.

    You'd need a scheme to to escape literal characters, like in a URL,
    though...

    Yeah, I don't know if there's a perfect solution, but usually any non-alpha char will short-circuit the mark-up parsing so *these words* would not be bold. Or maybe just *these, words* would not be bold. I haven't thoroughly analyzed the common or best parsing rules yet.

    digital man

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Fri Oct 16 11:30:55 2020
    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Fri Oct 16 2020 08:08 am

    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Fri Oct 16 2020 12:47 am

    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes" DM>> in message body text?

    I got the idea from reading about GoldEd+'s ability to
    (optionally) highlight message text that has been marked-up (e.g. DM>> this would *bold*, /italic/, etc.). GoldEd+ doesn't actually
    supports bold, italic, etc., so it just uses different foreground DM>> colors to indicate those text styles.

    Interesting idea. Seems to me new changes like this can lead to text
    potentially looking a bit ugly in clients & readers that don't support
    those new things, so that's probably something to consider too. I
    imagine SyncTerm would be updated to support it, but other terminal
    programs & offline message readers, etc. might not know how to deal
    with it.

    I think the idea is that the text would still look /fine/ (and very readable) when viewed in a non-supporting viewer. I wasn't thinking SyncTERM would change necessarily, unless Deuce had plans for text styles. Could be cool though even without any special terminal support.

    Were you thinking of using special characters around text (like the slashes you used around "fine") to mean certain kinds of markup? That would look okay even in terminals that don't support the special styling. It would be cool to see.

    Precisely. That's how GoldEd+ (and others) do it.

    digital man

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Oct 16 12:48:46 2020
    Re: Re: Style codes in messages
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Digital Man on Fri Oct 16 2020 07:17 am

    I'd like to see that. I'm thinking about some web markup schemes
    that people use to emphasize plain text, like *bold* text would look
    like ASCII to everyone else, but Synchronet could render as bold.

    Maybe /italic/ ?

    You'd need a scheme to to escape literal characters, like in a URL, though...

    That's one thing that I could see potentially being a little annoying.

    Time for a WYSIWYG version of Slyedit? :)

    :)

    Nightfox

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  • From Daryl Stout@VERT/TBOLT to Digital Man on Fri Oct 16 16:31:00 2020
    Rob,

    What ANSI issues? Perhaps if you described the problem I could either
    get it fixed or help you to understand how to use the program better so the problem didn't occur. But right now, I really have no clue what problem you're trying to describe.

    The resolution with Synchronet thinks it's 80x24, but SyncTerm
    thinks it's 80x25.

    Daryl

    ... ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Daryl Stout on Fri Oct 16 19:57:02 2020
    Re: Re: SyncTerm Glitch
    By: Daryl Stout to Digital Man on Fri Oct 16 2020 04:31 pm

    Rob,

    What ANSI issues? Perhaps if you described the problem I could either get it fixed or help you to understand how to use the program better so the problem didn't occur. But right now, I really have no clue what problem you're trying to describe.

    The resolution with Synchronet thinks it's 80x24, but SyncTerm
    thinks it's 80x25.

    I thought I already explained that bug. Either set "Hide Status Line" to "Yes" in SyncTERM or connect using RLogin or SSH instead of Telnet. It's a fixed bug, but there's no recent Windows build that includes the fix.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #60:
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  • From Tony Langdon@VERT to Digital Man on Sat Oct 17 16:41:00 2020
    On 10-16-20 09:47, Digital Man wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    There wouldn't be any ANSI or control codes in the messages. The markup syntax would use just *plain* US-ASCII characters, like that.

    Yeah, it does look pretty unobtrusive in the examples I've seen.

    I don't think there'd be any reason to do anything special for QWK (no
    new options needed). The only options needed would be for *viewing* messages and whether or not to recognize teh style codes and how to
    treat them.

    Yeah, the messages are still readable.

    It appears GoldEd+ has supported these codes for years and people use
    them without any special treatment (e.g. stripping) for networks. I use them (well *bold*) just out of habit.

    I hate *bold* because I have used ** differently in the past, and turning it bold actually can reduce the emphasis, but it's so entrenched now, I just do *notbold * (adding a space, when I don't want it interpreted).

    But things like *bold* and _italics_ are common interpretations for many message viewers.


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  • From Tony Langdon@VERT to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Oct 17 17:08:00 2020
    On 10-16-20 07:17, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Digital Man <=-

    Digital Man wrote to All <=-

    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes" in message body text?

    I'd like to see that. I'm thinking about some web markup schemes
    that people use to emphasize plain text, like *bold* text would look
    like ASCII to everyone else, but Synchronet could render as bold.

    Maybe /italic/ ?

    _italic_ is another one that's pretty common on Internet platforms, along with *bold*.

    You'd need a scheme to to escape literal characters, like in a URL,
    though...

    Yeah, escapes would be helpful for those cases, where a literal string is needed.


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  • From Tony Langdon@VERT to Digital Man on Sat Oct 17 17:10:00 2020
    On 10-16-20 11:29, Digital Man wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-


    Right. Those are included in the ones that GoldEd+ supports. Also _underlined_ and #inverse#.

    Good point. Seems we're settling on *bold* /italics/ _underline_ and #inverse# so far. :)

    You'd need a scheme to to escape literal characters, like in a URL,
    though...

    Yeah, I don't know if there's a perfect solution, but usually any non-alpha char will short-circuit the mark-up parsing so *these words* would not be bold. Or maybe just *these, words* would not be bold. I haven't thoroughly analyzed the common or best parsing rules yet.

    Opening a can of worms there. ;)


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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Tony Langdon on Sat Oct 17 01:45:32 2020
    Re: Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Tony Langdon to Digital Man on Sat Oct 17 2020 05:10 pm

    On 10-16-20 11:29, Digital Man wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-


    Right. Those are included in the ones that GoldEd+ supports. Also _underlined_ and #inverse#.

    Good point. Seems we're settling on *bold* /italics/ _underline_ and #inverse# so far. :)

    Those are the styles supported by GoldEd at least. You can read about its "stylecodes" here: https://github.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/blob/master/manuals/gold_ref.txt

    You'd need a scheme to to escape literal characters, like in a URL,
    though...

    Yeah, I don't know if there's a perfect solution, but usually any non-alpha char will short-circuit the mark-up parsing so *these words* would not be bold. Or maybe just *these, words* would not be bold. I haven't thoroughly analyzed the common or best parsing rules yet.

    Opening a can of worms there. ;)

    Everything is. :-)

    digital man

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  • From Daryl Stout@VERT/TBOLT to Digital Man on Sat Oct 17 12:21:00 2020
    Rob,

    I thought I already explained that bug. Either set "Hide Status Line"
    to "Yes" in SyncTERM or connect using RLogin or SSH instead of Telnet. It's a fixed bug, but there's no recent Windows build that includes the fix.

    OK, I'll try that.

    Also, Black Panther said he was not able to connect to tbolt.synchro.net
    but the BBS was up. Is the DYNDNS forwarding messed up?? I have it enabled
    over here.

    If I need to, I guess I need to find a supplemental DYNDNS deal, like I
    had at one time.

    Daryl

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Daryl Stout on Sat Oct 17 16:42:17 2020
    Re: Re: SyncTerm Glitch
    By: Daryl Stout to Digital Man on Sat Oct 17 2020 12:21 pm

    Also, Black Panther said he was not able to connect to tbolt.synchro.net but the BBS was up. Is the DYNDNS forwarding messed up?? I have it enabled over here.

    Nope. Worked from here. When it doubt, try http://vert.synchro.net/scanmyports.ssjs?tbolt.synchro.net

    digital man

    Rush quote #60:
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  • From Tony Langdon@VERT to Digital Man on Sun Oct 18 18:16:00 2020
    On 10-17-20 01:45, Digital Man wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Those are the styles supported by GoldEd at least. You can read about
    its "stylecodes" here: https://github.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/blob/master/manuals/gold_ref. txt

    Cool, the more I think about it, the more this looks like the place to start.
    )

    Opening a can of worms there. ;)

    Everything is. :-)

    True. :)


    ... Tell me what you need and I'll tell you how to get along without it.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Daryl Stout on Sun Oct 18 16:13:18 2020
    On 10/15/2020 11:37 PM, Daryl Stout wrote:
    Rob,

    I'm still having problems with the glitch in SyncTerm. The
    version is still 1.1 from ftp://vert.synchro.net -- and I've
    even downloaded versions from sourceforge and elsewhere.

    You had noted a "bug" with the display, when it should be
    80x24, the program only offers 80x25 or custom. I've even
    tried the font size at 8x14 or 8x16, and it still doesn't
    show the ANSI right.

    If there is a "fixed version", I haven't found it. I prefer
    using SyncTerm, but I can't get around this glitch with the
    telnet logon, and I think using another mode (i.e. SSH), would
    still have the same ANSI issues.

    80x24 is when you use 80x25 with the status bar.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Tony Langdon on Sun Oct 18 16:21:23 2020
    On 10/16/2020 10:41 PM, Tony Langdon wrote:

    But things like *bold* and _italics_ are common interpretations for many message viewers.

    In Thunderbird it's *bold* /italic/ and _underlined_

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Tony Langdon on Sun Oct 18 16:24:16 2020
    On 10/16/2020 11:08 PM, Tony Langdon wrote:
    You'd need a scheme to to escape literal characters, like in a URL,
    though...

    Yeah, escapes would be helpful for those cases, where a literal string is needed.

    Thunderbird both keeps the characters *and* changes the display, so the characters are still there, but just in bold with the in-between text.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tony Langdon@VERT to Tracker1 on Mon Oct 19 18:45:00 2020
    On 10-18-20 16:21, Tracker1 wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    On 10/16/2020 10:41 PM, Tony Langdon wrote:

    But things like *bold* and _italics_ are common interpretations for many message viewers.

    In Thunderbird it's *bold* /italic/ and _underlined_

    That looks the same as GoldEd. :) Some of the social media and chat clients use _italics_ for some reason. Discord really screws this up, doing *italics* as well as _italics_, and ignoring //.

    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Tony Langdon@VERT to Tracker1 on Mon Oct 19 18:51:00 2020
    On 10-18-20 16:24, Tracker1 wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    On 10/16/2020 11:08 PM, Tony Langdon wrote:
    You'd need a scheme to to escape literal characters, like in a URL,
    though...

    Yeah, escapes would be helpful for those cases, where a literal string is needed.

    Thunderbird both keeps the characters *and* changes the display, so the characters are still there, but just in bold with the in-between text.

    Which is good for preserving the original text, maybe with some weird formatting. :)


    ... How do they get Teflon to stick to the pan??
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Android8675@VERT/SHODAN to Digital Man on Mon Oct 19 07:35:47 2020
    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Digital Man to All on Thu Oct 15 2020 05:14 pm

    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes" in message body text?

    big fan of the markup they use at Reddit and the .md files on sites like github/lab, might be a nice way to add in-line url links.

    I know sometimes bbs folk frown on all that, but i'm all for progress.

    --
    Android8675@ShodansCore

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Shodan's Core @ ShodansCore.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Tracker1 on Mon Oct 19 19:35:05 2020
    Re: Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Tracker1 to Tony Langdon on Sun Oct 18 2020 04:24 pm

    On 10/16/2020 11:08 PM, Tony Langdon wrote:
    You'd need a scheme to to escape literal characters, like in a URL,
    though...

    Yeah, escapes would be helpful for those cases, where a literal string is needed.

    Thunderbird both keeps the characters *and* changes the display, so the characters are still there, but just in bold with the in-between text.

    That seems to contradict this Thunderbird documentation: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Plain_text_e-mail_%28Thunderbird%29

    I don't have Thunderbird installed to try it myself. I wonder if maybe there's another option to strip the markup characters too.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #26:
    David St. Hubbins: They were still booing him when we came on stage.
    Norco, CA WX: 68.0°F, 78.0% humidity, 5 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Tracker1 on Mon Oct 19 19:46:29 2020
    Re: Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Digital Man to Tracker1 on Mon Oct 19 2020 07:35 pm

    Re: Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Tracker1 to Tony Langdon on Sun Oct 18 2020 04:24 pm

    On 10/16/2020 11:08 PM, Tony Langdon wrote:
    You'd need a scheme to to escape literal characters, like in a URL,
    though...

    Yeah, escapes would be helpful for those cases, where a literal string is needed.

    Thunderbird both keeps the characters *and* changes the display, so the characters are still there, but just in bold with the in-between text.

    That seems to contradict this Thunderbird documentation: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Plain_text_e-mail_%28Thunderbird%29

    And then this page has a work-around to hide the markup characters: https://web.archive.org/web/20160630142530/http://edmullen.info/mozilla/moz_stext.php

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #71:
    SSH = Secure Shell
    Norco, CA WX: 67.4°F, 80.0% humidity, 4 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Tony Langdon on Mon Oct 19 20:07:18 2020
    On 10/19/2020 12:45 AM, Tony Langdon wrote:
    In Thunderbird it's *bold* /italic/ and _underlined_

    That looks the same as GoldEd. :) Some of the social media and chat clients use _italics_ for some reason. Discord really screws this up, doing *italics*
    as well as _italics_, and ignoring //.

    Markdown is usually *italics* and **bold** so that may have something to
    do with those influences.

    In fact MS Teams and other apps will often catch common markdown or
    emoji escapes :+1: or :thumbsup: ... there's some variance there.

    For UTF8 users, could probably catch emoji sequences and replace with
    the emoji character (counting on double-wide use in the display). I use
    the Fira Code font for my terminal and Rocket.rs for my prompt, so the
    extra characters are pretty useful to me.

    https://gist.github.com/rxaviers/7360908

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Digital Man on Mon Oct 19 20:18:01 2020
    On 10/19/2020 7:35 PM, Digital Man wrote:
    Thunderbird both keeps the characters *and* changes the display, so the
    characters are still there, but just in bold with the in-between text.

    That seems to contradict this Thunderbird documentation: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Plain_text_e-mail_%28Thunderbird%29

    I don't have Thunderbird installed to try it myself. I wonder if maybe there's another option to strip the markup characters too.

    https://i.imgur.com/vFKKt9g.png

    Note: it also delimits on a signature tear of "-- " on an otherwise
    blank line... would be cool if this was auto-added as trim(message) +
    "\n\n-- \n" as a signature prefix when appending user signatures.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Tracker1 on Mon Oct 19 20:59:03 2020
    Re: Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Tracker1 to Digital Man on Mon Oct 19 2020 08:18 pm

    On 10/19/2020 7:35 PM, Digital Man wrote:
    Thunderbird both keeps the characters *and* changes the display, so the >> characters are still there, but just in bold with the in-between text.

    That seems to contradict this Thunderbird documentation: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Plain_text_e-mail_%28Thunderbird%29

    I don't have Thunderbird installed to try it myself. I wonder if maybe there's another option to strip the markup characters too.

    https://i.imgur.com/vFKKt9g.png

    That's kind of a bummer. Does it support /*mixing*/ styles? Or *multiple words*?

    Note: it also delimits on a signature tear of "-- " on an otherwise
    blank line... would be cool if this was auto-added as trim(message) + "\n\n-- \n" as a signature prefix when appending user signatures.

    Does *any* other program treat "-- " special? What does Thunderbird refer to that line as?

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #19:
    The first Synchronet BBS (Vertrauen) went live in July of 1991 (replacing WWIV).
    Norco, CA WX: 66.3°F, 81.0% humidity, 0 mph SSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Tony Langdon@VERT to Tracker1 on Tue Oct 20 20:54:00 2020
    On 10-19-20 20:07, Tracker1 wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Markdown is usually *italics* and **bold** so that may have something
    to do with those influences.

    Yep, just tested, looks like that is what Discord is using. Gotta love standards, so many to choose from. ;)

    In fact MS Teams and other apps will often catch common markdown or
    emoji escapes :+1: or :thumbsup: ... there's some variance there.

    Catching emojis is very hit and miss. I like apps that do catch those sequences, because I don't have to resort to the mouse for the common ones like :-) and :-( etc. Those will show the correct emoji in many cases. :)

    For UTF8 users, could probably catch emoji sequences and replace with
    the emoji character (counting on double-wide use in the display). I
    use the Fira Code font for my terminal and Rocket.rs for my prompt, so
    the extra characters are pretty useful to me.

    Seems we're still a way off having proper UTF-8 support in the BBS ecosystem. Some packages have at least some level of support.


    ... YouTube, Twitter, & FaceBook will combine to form YouTwitFace.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Kirkman@VERT/GUARDIAN to Digital Man on Tue Oct 20 10:36:54 2020
    Seems like a good idea to me.

    I'd vote for Markdown, or a subset of Markdown. It's been around for 16 years (see https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax), and has become a de-facto standard on tons of popular tech sites. GitHub, StackOverflow, Reddit are among those who use it, or a modified version of it.

    To me, it's a good fit for BBSes. It was designed to look good and be very readable, even in plain text when it's not interpreted.

    Some of the rules would work well in a terminal, others (hyperlinks, inline images, etc) probably only make sense in the web interface.

    --Josh

    ////--------------------------------------------------
    BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog

    ---
    ­ Synchronet
  • From Daryl Stout@VERT/TBOLT to Tracker1 on Tue Oct 20 12:59:00 2020
    Michael,

    80x24 is when you use 80x25 with the status bar.

    OK, I'll try that setup then.

    Daryl

    ... ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net
  • From Rick Smith@VERT to Digital Man on Tue Oct 20 19:15:42 2020
    Greetings Digital!

    Monday October 19 2020 19:35, you wrote to Tracker1 about an urgent matter!:

    Re: Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Tracker1 to Tony Langdon on Sun Oct 18 2020 04:24 pm

    On 10/16/2020 11:08 PM, Tony Langdon wrote:
    You'd need a scheme to to escape literal characters, like in a

    That seems to contradict this Thunderbird documentation: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Plain_text_e-mail_%28Thunderbird%29

    I don't have Thunderbird installed to try it myself. I wonder if maybe there's another option to strip the markup characters too.

    I am not sure if this was mentioned or not but in golded I just used STYLECODES hide


    ----
    Regards,


    Rick Smith (Nitro)

    ... Taglines: the bumper stickers of BBSing.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: ----> Abacus Sysop Point --->>>>bbs.abon.us:2323 (1:340/202.1)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Rick Smith on Tue Oct 20 21:56:46 2020
    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Rick Smith to Digital Man on Tue Oct 20 2020 07:15 pm

    Greetings Digital!

    Monday October 19 2020 19:35, you wrote to Tracker1 about an urgent matter!:

    Re: Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Tracker1 to Tony Langdon on Sun Oct 18 2020 04:24 pm

    On 10/16/2020 11:08 PM, Tony Langdon wrote:
    You'd need a scheme to to escape literal characters, like in a

    That seems to contradict this Thunderbird documentation: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Plain_text_e-mail_%28Thunderbird%29

    I don't have Thunderbird installed to try it myself. I wonder if maybe there's another option to strip the markup characters too.

    I am not sure if this was mentioned or not but in golded I just used STYLECODES hide

    Yeah, I saw that in the GoldEd+ manual. Thanks,

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #38:
    HTTPS = Secure HTTP (authenticated and encrypted HTTP over TLS)
    Norco, CA WX: 63.9°F, 86.0% humidity, 0 mph S wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Digital Man on Wed Oct 21 13:37:04 2020
    On 10/19/2020 8:59 PM, Digital Man wrote:
    https://i.imgur.com/vFKKt9g.png

    That's kind of a bummer. Does it support /*mixing*/ styles? Or *multiple words*?

    The multiple words was bold, not italicized, unsure of */inversed/* (test).

    Note: it also delimits on a signature tear of "-- " on an otherwise
    blank line... would be cool if this was auto-added as trim(message) +
    "\n\n-- \n" as a signature prefix when appending user signatures.

    Does *any* other program treat "-- " special? What does Thunderbird refer to that line as?

    It's a signature tear line... and yes, most of the usenet readers that
    I've used in the past, and a few email programs, will recognize it, and sometimes can be set to exclude signatures in replies automatically.

    It's similar to the system tear line "---" in practice, but most apps
    will only recognize literally "-- " with the space on a line by itself,
    not two hyphens alone, or with other text on the same line.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Digital Man on Wed Oct 21 13:39:16 2020
    On 10/19/2020 8:59 PM, Digital Man wrote:
    Note: it also delimits on a signature tear of "-- " on an otherwise
    blank line... would be cool if this was auto-added as trim(message) +
    "\n\n-- \n" as a signature prefix when appending user signatures.

    Does *any* other program treat "-- " special? What does Thunderbird refer to that line as?

    In addition to my prior reply... several nntp and email programs do
    recognize this and may have settings to exclude signatures from replies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_block#Standard_delimiter

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Tracker1 on Wed Oct 21 13:55:22 2020
    Re: Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Tracker1 to Digital Man on Wed Oct 21 2020 01:39 pm

    On 10/19/2020 8:59 PM, Digital Man wrote:
    Note: it also delimits on a signature tear of "-- " on an otherwise
    blank line... would be cool if this was auto-added as trim(message) +
    "\n\n-- \n" as a signature prefix when appending user signatures.

    Does *any* other program treat "-- " special? What does Thunderbird refer to that line as?

    In addition to my prior reply... several nntp and email programs do recognize this and may have settings to exclude signatures from replies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_block#Standard_delimiter

    Okay, cool. I haven't personally used any email programs or news readers that recognized that tear-line syntax, but I'll look into it.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #32:
    FTN = FidoNet Technology Network
    Norco, CA WX: 74.1°F, 70.0% humidity, 2 mph NW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Kirkman on Wed Oct 21 13:45:38 2020
    On 10/20/2020 8:36 AM, Kirkman wrote:
    Seems like a good idea to me.

    I'd vote for Markdown, or a subset of Markdown. It's been around for 16 years (see https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax), and has become a de-facto standard on tons of popular tech sites. GitHub, StackOverflow, Reddit
    are among those who use it, or a modified version of it.

    To me, it's a good fit for BBSes. It was designed to look good and be very readable, even in plain text when it's not interpreted.

    Some of the rules would work well in a terminal, others (hyperlinks, inline images, etc) probably only make sense in the web interface.

    I like Github Flavored Markdown (gfm) myself, mostly since it's probably
    the most widely used variety in practice. Though realistically only bold/italics are really useful for a terminal display, web view is
    something different.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Digital Man@VERT to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Nov 2 02:25:32 2020
    Re: Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Digital Man to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Oct 16 2020 11:29 am

    Re: Re: Style codes in messages
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Digital Man on Fri Oct 16 2020 07:17 am

    Digital Man wrote to All <=-

    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes" in message body text?

    I'd like to see that. I'm thinking about some web markup schemes
    that people use to emphasize plain text, like *bold* text would look
    like ASCII to everyone else, but Synchronet could render as bold.

    Maybe /italic/ ?

    Right. Those are included in the ones that GoldEd+ supports. Also _underlined_ and #inverse#.

    You'd need a scheme to to escape literal characters, like in a URL,
    though...

    Yeah, I don't know if there's a perfect solution, but usually any non-alpha char will short-circuit the mark-up parsing so *these words* would not be bold. Or maybe just *these, words* would not be bold. I haven't thoroughly analyzed the common or best parsing rules yet.

    If anyone's curious, this is what the markup (style codes) currently look like in SyncTERM with custom fonts:
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApZPvWcrEaRQvOhXPHfQo0mI4N5_jg?e=wjy6qa
    --
    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #36:
    Bobbi Flekman: Money talks, and bullshit walks.
    Norco, CA WX: 66.0°F, 40.0% humidity, 0 mph SW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From deepthaw@VERT/CORTEX to Digital Man on Sun Nov 15 13:07:47 2020
    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Digital Man to All on Thu Oct 15 2020 05:14 pm

    What do you guys think about potentially supporting "style codes" in message body text?

    The main use I can think of would be allowing formatting decisions to carry through from ansi viewers to web viewers (the only really different presentation manager I can think of.)

    Which, that's not a bad thing. Especially if it uses the style codes we *already* use /by/ /habit/.

    Another issue would be how people input it. Seems like it'd be more of defining a standard (since it'd fail gracefully) than having to do much implementation.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ c.o.r.t.e.x 2.0.2.0 | telnet://deepthaw.net
  • From deepthaw@VERT/CORTEX to Nightfox on Sun Nov 15 13:10:03 2020
    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Thu Oct 15 2020 09:52 pm

    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Digital Man to All on Thu Oct 15 2020 05:14 pm

    those new things, so that's probably something to consider too. I imagine SyncTerm would be updated to support it, but other terminal programs & offline message readers, etc. might not know how to deal with it.

    It's my understanding that the formatting codes are pretty close to what people already do. They put asterisks around *bold* test, slashes around /italicized/ text, etc. If a client didn't support it, they'd see something similar to this message.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ c.o.r.t.e.x 2.0.2.0 | telnet://deepthaw.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to deepthaw on Sun Nov 15 15:43:35 2020
    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: deepthaw to Nightfox on Sun Nov 15 2020 01:10 pm

    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Thu Oct 15 2020 09:52 pm

    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Digital Man to All on Thu Oct 15 2020 05:14 pm

    those new things, so that's probably something to consider too. I imagine SyncTerm would be updated to support it, but other terminal programs & offline message readers, etc. might not know how to deal with it.

    It's my understanding that the formatting codes are pretty close to what people already do. They put asterisks around *bold* test, slashes around /italicized/ text, etc. If a client didn't support it, they'd see something similar to this message.

    The Markup support is already implemented in the latest dev builds of SBBS (needs to be enabled for each sub-board), so your message on Vertrauen looked like this:
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApZPvWcrEaRQvaBcGTSf_vAk2TaXSQ?e=ejQixC
    --
    digital man

    Rush quote #48:
    The point of the journey is not to arrive. Anything can happen.
    Norco, CA WX: 84.6°F, 12.0% humidity, 0 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to deepthaw on Mon Nov 16 08:17:50 2020
    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: deepthaw to Nightfox on Sun Nov 15 2020 01:10 pm

    those new things, so that's probably something to consider too. I
    imagine SyncTerm would be updated to support it, but other terminal
    programs & offline message readers, etc. might not know how to deal
    with it.

    It's my understanding that the formatting codes are pretty close to what people already do. They put asterisks around *bold* test, slashes around /italicized/ text, etc. If a client didn't support it, they'd see something similar to this message.

    That's what I gathered too, from what Digital Man said.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Nightfox on Mon Nov 16 19:44:46 2020
    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Nightfox to deepthaw on Mon Nov 16 2020 08:17 am

    It's my understanding that the formatting codes are pretty close to
    what people already do. They put asterisks around *bold* test,
    slashes around /italicized/ text, etc. If a client didn't support
    it, they'd see something similar to this message.

    That's what I gathered too, from what Digital Man said.

    I have the apply markup codes set to hide in all my areas. The word bold and italicized above stand out from other text, it looks good.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... My computer has EMS... Won't you help?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Al on Tue Nov 17 12:25:50 2020
    Re: Style codes in messages
    By: Al to Nightfox on Mon Nov 16 2020 07:44 pm

    It's my understanding that the formatting codes are pretty close to
    what people already do. They put asterisks around *bold* test,
    slashes around /italicized/ text, etc. If a client didn't support
    it, they'd see something similar to this message.

    That's what I gathered too, from what Digital Man said.

    I have the apply markup codes set to hide in all my areas. The word bold and italicized above stand out from other text, it looks good.

    I didn't realize the markup code support had been implemented already (I haven't been following the Synchronet Programming sub-board very closely). I thought it was still a conceptual idea. I'll have to check it out.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com